Well, welcome, everyone, to our final session of the all district conference. I'm Sue Cunningham, president and CEO of CASE. And it's wonderful to be here with you after what has been two amazing days with thousands of attendees from around the world. Now, as advancement professionals, we must never stop learning. And it's been wonderful spending the last few days learning with thousands of attendees from many parts of the globe coming together to learn and share best practice, distinguish ashes and elevates our profession the advancement profession. And it is in that spirit. I'm also so pleased to congratulate our 521 winners of the 2023 Circle of Excellence Awards. The Circle of Excellence Awards, our Advancements premier International Award program recognizing outstanding work in Advancement Services, alumni relations, communications, fundraising and marketing. And I'm incredibly grateful to our panel of no fewer than 425 volunteer judges who selected those outstanding winners from over 4000 entries. And we'll pop the link to those winners into the chat. It's a great opportunity to learn and to be inspired by the innovation of your colleagues and with that, we'll get our closing plenary started. So I'm very excited to be spending the next wee while together with you and our guest speaker in this final plenary, or Fireside Chat although I don’t think we have a fire place today, Deb Taft who is Chief Executive Officer and co-owner of Lindauer and has over 25 years of executive and senior level experience across the nonprofit sector. Deb has many accolades to her name, including currently, should you find yourself in Boston, you would discover a ten foot high image of Deb as one of the subjects in the Portraits of Pride Photography exhibition. She is also a recognized speaker, facilitator and presenter, and our honors include many, including being a recipient of the Crystal excellence, the Excellence in Teaching and Recognition as a 2021 member of the White Boston Academy of Women Achievers and the 2019 Leading Women of Massachusetts by Girl Scouts of Eastern Massachusetts. There is so much more, but I want to welcome you here at a really start out conversation around around leadership and your work so welcome, Deb Taft. Sue, Great to be with you as always. And great to be here today with this incredible gathering. It's been so much fun to participate in the conference. Just great, great event. It's great to see you here. So if I could start off by inviting you first of all to share a bit about your leadership journey and then to indicate when did you first see yourself as a leader? When did that light bulb moment happen? You know, my answer on this probably sheds a bit of light on the work that CASE does and its importance. As I grew up in a CASE member school and the role of mission based organizations in our society to be truthful. So as I respond, I think about the 4000 plus attendees at this conference and our our collective impact. I was called forward as a leader early in my life, as a young person, and one could say that some of that was innate. I'm sure some people would say that, but I'm pretty clear the role that mentors and champions learning, and our own self agency played in the development of of my leadership skills and also the converse of what happens when one is not called forward or when one's talents are not developed. So first I was called forward by mentors and champions to take risk in school to do more public speaking, to play a new sport, test my limits, learn a new skill, take a new role, run for office, accept a role as chair of the board. As I developed second to be open to an embrace, learning and failure and third to name the corollary action here our own self agency to say yes, to raise my hand, to take the knocks of losing or failing, which I did plenty of times. And I think it's important probably to create some context that I grew up as a woman and a time of firsts, at least in Americans society and probably globally, a transformation person. Before I, I understood it, a ninth grade class with 65 boys and nine girls, just as the school was going coed and early. Lots of firsts. The first female senior class president in a history of a school founded in 1781 after not being elected. By the way, there's losing before there's winning. So I just I do think there's a certain amount of teflon and grit that probably will will run through, but I hopefully will provide some context for that. Thank you. And persistence and persistence and persistence. And I just want to dig a bit deeper because I'm very interested in what you said about learning and failure and taking risks. But when was that first moment you thought, okay, I'm a leader. This is this is what I'm here to be? I really do think it was early in my life. I think it was probably in high school maybe before. I mean, there were offices early on, but I think I somehow understood and it's why I mentioned the historic context of of of things that come against and yet suddenly standing up in front of thousands of people in public speaking and realizing that this was it carried responsibility carried weight on the shoulders to be that first. And then identifying that that leadership skill in yourself. How have you consciously cultivated it? I think there are informal and formal elements here, so formal learning, inhaling and applying feedback. It was it was a sort of important piece of of the story and then taking on opportunities and risks. I, I went to business school. I don't know whether you and I have ever talked about that. I went to business school to get my MBA at the age of 29. So a little later than some people do, starting my degree part time on top of a job as a chief advancement officer, I just did not think that I had the full toolkit of business skills and I've never regretted it. For those with us today, I this allowed me to sit comfortably in a board of trust with the Board of Trustees or the Finance Committee and talk numbers have a comfort with financial reporting. Learn so much about organizational structure and behavior management and leadership. So what I did was I identified a weak spot and thought I ought to get training in it. I also took tough feedback. I think sometimes the toughest feedback was often the most memorable. My first job, real job out of college, my bosses at Bank of Boston gave me what I thought then was a pretty tough performance review. Two years out of college and 12 months into the job and told me to learn more skills before I could expect to be promoted and then mentored me and promoted me. There's another lesson there for leaders and managers about the art of that. I was transferred out of that leadership program promoted in six months. So I think it was a test about how I would respond and and take the coaching. I had ahead of school at one point who said that he and the board liked my confident self more than they liked my insecure self. I still think about that when my insecurities show up as they do. So. This isn't about being inappropriately confident, but what I call comfortable confident. So understanding our strengths and weaknesses and navigating accordingly. I think the risk tolerance piece, it ties to the self agency I mentioned before. I probably have a higher risk tolerance and than many. So I will ask myself what's the worst thing that can happen here? Can our can I bear it? Can Mike, can our family? Barrett What if I take this assignment and I fail even as much as lose my job, lose our house? I actually got two points in my career. Turns in my career. When I ask that, But it's been a key leadership ingredient to me, so it feels like it's worth it to mention it. But I know you and I are both clear that taking risk also involves privilege, and one needs to understand where one's own options and limits are. I love the phrase you use inhaling feedback. So when you receive feedback, all you a stroke that I experienced. I know many others do as well. When you receive such feedback, it a review or 360, whatever it might be, immediately going to the constructive feedback and reading the positive, but then sort of following it away on the nice but not not important. Dismissing it. Right. How do you how do you approach that? Are you able to absorb the positive feedback alongside constructive. That's been learned? That's a learned behavior, I would say for probably many people on the screen. But inhaling actually both the positive because we need to write that can sustain us in challenging times if we're leading. We are experiencing challenges pretty much all the time. So so having that bank of positive experiences and positive feedback, reinforcing the strengths, but then that being able to in fact inhale the negative too. And I think I it's a learned journey to become less defensive about that and more receptive to it and inhale it and walk forward in it. And sometimes there's an arc, you hope there's a velocity to to not showing but a velocity to that. When we take that line. I'm definitely going to adopt the inhaling feedback craze. I think that's wonderful that those of you who are joining us, please do put questions in the chat. There'll be a moment in time in the not too distant future where I'm really keen to involve you in this conversation. So, Deb, can I ask you for those who are listening right now, what do you advise your candidates? You meet many, many people who are exploring the next stage of their careers. So what do you advise your candidates for their leadership journeys? And does one ever finish learning leadership? The quick answer to the second question is no. It was constant learning. You know, I think it's a little related to what we were just speaking about, Sue, because my old boss at Tufts Medical Center, CEO Ellen Zane, used to say the best leaders she ever knew no themselves. And so I think that that concept of self-knowledge is important. No one ever finishes. My my dad videotaped himself in the last years of being a physics teacher to ensure he still had it in the classroom and was a good teacher and was reaching his students. So, you know, that's a that's a personal role modeling for me. But I did I do believe in professional learning and degrees when they're possible. I understand that's not always possible for people. So master's degrees PhDs and I don't actually know that it's about always subject matter can matter. It should be something that interests you, but not because one needs it for degrees, but because it opens our eyes, puts us in learning communities. Teachers, lifelong learning adds toolkits, competencies as we talked about before and there are lots of amazing free learning platforms out there. So I want to I mean, you and I know there's some amazing platforms for people to do formal coursework, I think case I can't stand here. I mean, you and I are here today because of case, but also that that's been my professional home for all of these decades. No matter where I was to inhale and apply that case competency model. It's actually something we talk about with with candidates and career journey framework that managers, when you can send your colleagues and team members to these programs, keep doing it and employees when you can keep asking for these opportunities. But I also think there are informal in your own communities. We know, too, that professional speak at each other's campuses. It's also an affordable way to do cross campus learning and yet can engage engage us in our own learning journey, volunteering. We see people move up because they have gone beyond their role and volunteered for cross team working groups or campus wide working groups and gained exposure and experience. And then I even think about in our amazing opening conversation yesterday, my my colleague Sonia Dunphy, who leads Richmond Associates, talked about secondment. So the idea of spending some time in another institution to broaden perspectives and learning and understanding when it's possible to do that. So imagine rotations in-country or across global rotations in our own institutions. Think about spending time with finance, marketing, enrollment, management, fundraising, academic, what we learn. So I'm a big believer in in really a lot of those ingredients. And to fill in the missing pieces when we don't have some. Wonderful new I this content idea is a wonderful one because we can get caught up in the busyness of our world and the busyness of our jobs and not look up and out. And I think that's a critical part of leadership being critical, but leadership, many of our members around the world are really focused on building more diverse, more equitable teams and creating a sense of inclusion and belonging. And this you know, you've been really close to Casey's work on this and a really strong supporter and advisor in the work we're dedicated to doing. And I reflect that when I think about your leadership in this space, you really walk the walk when it comes to your deep commitment to creating more diverse schools, society, and so much so, as I mentioned a few minutes ago, you know, ten foot images is one of the select few portraits of Pride Photography exhibition in Boston. So what motivate your passion for this work? Yeah, it's been something to see at the height of 411. For those of you don't. Know, you can see. It on the screen two to see a ten foot portrait on Boston City Hall Plaza. Unnerving, but but it has also caused me to reflect on on this work. You know, for me, inequity and and injustice are real living, breathing concepts and always have been. I think I sometimes miss the signs and realities. Growing up in New Hampshire was in a sort of small, predominantly white state in the United States early in my career or even living in England as a young person. But I have taught myself, pushed myself to not miss signs, to see and to listen hard. But this is a constant learning journey also. You know, I when I was very I mean, early firm, formative experiences, right? One black family in my public elementary school, the incredible Mr. Bethel, who's the most incredible music teacher and bandleader, but why only one black family in our town? And I could see it and I could feel it even if I couldn't put words around it. My toughest teacher and mentor in high school was a was the first black woman hired at the school. She was the partner dorm parent to my dad and sat with me many nights while I did my homework and she was on duty in the dorm. Never let me get away with a thing so called out my assumptions about how I saw the world ask me to explain myself. Had early leaders who pushed me into question and P flag and other sort of education related LGBTQ plus organizations in the education arena. So listening to teachers and students and families. So for me, probably the education piece has become synonymous with diversity and inclusion. I sadly have experienced a lot of educational communities and communities that are working to diversify. That's the good news. But the racism and sexism and homophobia were very raw in those communities. I saw sort of the the best and the worst of humanity, and we were missing so much talent and expertise and life experience because colleagues and friends couldn't be self expressed in their work communities. And what message was that sending to the young people we were bringing along? I think a lot about it was also about listening to other humans and our advancement work, listening and believing in life experiences that you and I were hearing to students in schools who didn't feel belonging. Because in those years, registration form said only mother and father versus recognizing other family structures and alumni of schools and colleges who didn't feel welcome at Parent's Weekend or Reunion weekend because we only referred to two spouses in our materials and not significant others or all the other family structures in alumni notes, EDS. I think of our alumni colleagues out there today wondering if in those years if they could include a gay marriage or someone's pronouns or gender identity and how to handle transitions. And of course, now we're back to some of that in a number of communities, faculty and staff who couldn't speak about their families. When someone asked how was your weekend or mention alternate structures in their teaching family structures or or lives residential faculty on our campuses. So I don't think I ever saw that I had a choice but to take action and be part of that progress in so many ways. But it is about listening and in constant learning. Well, and and I'm deeply grateful for the your real intentionality and thoughtfulness and the as as the the chair of our industry advisory Council and on our board of trustees. You're a powerful and important voice on this. I think it's as you said earlier, it's a journey and and I think there's considerable movement forward. And as you also described right now, there are some steps backwards. And being intentional and committed, I think is the case critically important to this work in a way that is inclusive of everybody. And and that that's that's critical as we advance this work and to foster their cultural differences around the world in terms of of what diversity inclusion means. And it's equally important in every part of the world. And on that note, line down the firm that you need is is incredibly highly regarded. In fact, recently you are highly ranked in the fourth best executive recruiting ranking for which congratulations. And you also like face have a large global footprint. You do your work in many parts of the world. So and you and I have had opportunity to work together in different parts of the world. So why is that important to you as a leader and as a volunteer leader at Case? Yeah, it's it's a I think it follows a little bit case's journey. You know, when I took over Lindauer in 2018, it was 2016, but bought it in 2018. It was I was very clear that this was actually not just responsibility. So, yes, a professional role, but a responsibility to lead this this company, we we make such a significant I mean, I think the most advanced work placements in anyone else in the United States and have for a long time. But for me, that felt like an obligation and responsibility. So it meant that we were a major force and factor in in shaping so many advancement teams. The fridge, your future workforce that you and I care so much about in the profession and therefore generations of impact. And I and my colleagues, many people yesterday feel this profoundly and therefore impact on communities and towns and cities and countries. It's really not to understate that because it cannot be lost on any of us. The impact of the work that we do research, disease, curing disease, the environment, financial markets, providing employment, sustaining families, building campuses. It just you can name it across across the landscape, engaging in serving communities. So I mentioned this impact because I think Lindauer is global work was a natural expansion and extension evolution of that responsibility. Just as Casey's work has been and will be and must hold this whole. So charity in general and generosity, you know, and I know I've been alive and well on every continent for ages as as marketing or enrollment management or alumni engagement in the world's oldest non US universities, as much as we love our American universities. But these were not American inventions, but the professional aspects and considerable growth of the profession really has some serious North American roots marketing Madison Avenue Mainstreet data driven engagement technology systems, systematic fundraising, donor relations. The list goes on and on and has grown with case, and case has grown with it and shaped it. The case has been a shaper. It has been a shaper of this history, this story, this profession, and I think the gold standard for the profession. So Lindauer was likewise going to be called to connect the global talent network while the talent pool is still far, far too slim for the demand. And I know you and I worry a lot about that and are working to develop it, but we had advancement and leadership expertise that was needed to come to get calls to come to Australia, Singapore, South America, Bulgaria, Switzerland, Africa. It goes on the Arctic. But my, my life experiences that these global viewpoints matter deeply, and that's what's underlying that we won't get into today. But these global perspectives add value closed borders. In my book don't work. They don't work for case. They don't work for Lindauer. Traditions of giving and engagement don't come in boxes. They're Muslim and Buddhist Catholic, Protestant, evangelical, atheist. They're Navajo and Cherokee, Indigenous and Asian across continents and cultures and geographies. So I think that's our work. It's just it's not even a question. It's our work. And you did and I've asked you this question before, and I think I'm going to keep asking it until something shifts. But in my career and in my work, I've seen a diaspora of Americans and Canadians and British go to work in the UK or in Australia or in Canada in leading advancement operations or working in roles and advancement. I still haven't seen much of an influx of people from outside of the US from also becoming quite mature markets. Yeah, to meet some of the huge demand from within the US. So are you seeing a shift on US schools and colleges and universities beginning to look outside of this country to recruit professionals who will bring real excellence and acumen to those roles? I still think there's more interest in the talent moving than there is demand or willingness from U.S. institutions. And you're right, I do hope we see a change, because at this point, there are many areas of the world that where these advanced and programs are as advanced, if not more, in certain arenas. And and the learnings are there. I think you and I can't discount sometimes the visa issues I know case has been involved in that. It's not small. So yes, it's easier to move from Australia to the United States or among the Commonwealth countries, for instance, than it is across some other boundaries and and the pandemic and the global restrictions I would call the sort of closing borders has not helped us in that regard. But I do think there is an American well founded in the roots of the profession. But I think it's why I did that ask out about the traditions of generosity and philanthropy and then the professions. I think things have evened out a lot. And I do hope we have a we have a dearth of talent. We have a lack of talents are everywhere. And we need to be able to to move people around more easily and be willing to do so. Sure, I'm going to ask two more questions and then I really want to open this up. I could keep asking questions all day, but I'm keen to create the opportunity for others. So the first is a continuum of the last one really, which is and I think about this a lot in terms of leading cases team with staff in London and Singapore and Washington DC and Mexico City and that's Australia and other places besides. So how do you need your team to be more globally minded? Yeah, I think this is a there's some themes from earlier, but a constant learning and sharing. We do a lot in terms of team meetings and reading and case studies and articles and sharing. Some of it is technical, right? So we have to help people understand labor laws in various regions, visa info, terminology, changing language around that. You know, we in the States love to talk about fall and spring and, you know, opposite in other parts of the world. There's simple things. But they they do make a difference. We have I have colleagues at Lindauer who can speak Spanish and English on the fly. But how are we thinking about language training here? You are going to Mexico and to learn more Spanish. That's a that's a great thing. And we need to be encouraging that amongst everybody. I think that the meaning of diversity and inclusion equity work is, is, is, is different. Right? What is indigenous in various countries is different. The the racial and and and faith based religious issues and conflict and opportunity are different in these regions. So cross-cultural competencies sounds like such an overarching term but it's that it's the granularity of that. And then, you know, we're used to going into organizations and asking all about the institution, the board, the leadership, the aspirations, the strategic priorities. But the cultural context and reality and aspirations are the things that often make or break, whether a placement can occur and whether that new leader can be successful in the institution. So lots to to work on there in terms of the layers and levels of questions that we need to be probing for sure. And I think the quotient of curiosity in terms of some of the soldering moving from one concept to another or one state to another is critically important. If one goes thinking that you can just take the copy of what's left here and take it back, that's when it falls over. So that that curiosity and learning which you've described is really important. That's right. Yeah. So another question before we open up, and I'm incredibly grateful that amongst the myriad things you do, folks, you also lead our Industry Advisory Council, which is the council that brings together the, the, the strategy and the thinking and the connection with all of our educational partners who are just critical partners to the work you do to advance education. So how might campus advancement professionals engage more thoughtfully with our educational clients? You know, it is such a joy to do this work. And I so many amazing educational partners around the world who support case and it's in all sorts of and yes, consultants, yes, technology companies, search firms, but really a range of of educational partners. There's a concept in there that's and that's important and have for years and continue to support case. I would say that these organizations often these these external partners have amazing they're amazing resource and thought partners. So think about the purview that they get to see the breadth and the width of the institutions and the issues and the challenges they've seen so much. I worry a lot when we see them as vendors, and I'd rather call out behavior when someone's acting too much like a vendor. Obviously, most of us, many of us grew up in case it was our volunteer home. It was our professional home. And I also lots of these organizations offer companies offer complimentary programs, so webinars, offerings, thought leadership, yes, products and services, but follow their feeds, download their reports, read their thought leadership. It's really often synthesizing with cases, learning journey as well. Absolutely. And we're all in this work at advancement, building relationships and the relationships, I would argue, between the work of educational partners and the work of advancement professionals and professionals is absolutely integral because I think we're all working to advance education and the impact that that has. So I would tend over to my wonderful colleague, Kristie, to see if we have any questions in the chair that we do. So someone asked a specifically about Florida, but I think we see this happening all across the country that the initiatives are under attack. So they're asking if you have any thoughts or advice for leaders who, you know, DTI is a priority for their institutions but are facing these obstacles. Yeah, it's interesting. You asked me where I was today, and I'm in Florida, in the United States, so southeastern coast of the United States, for those who are watching from around the world and a particular state in the U.S. that has passed leadership that has passed legislation that is anti actually allowing educational leaders not to speak about diversity and inclusion, about LGBTQ and sort of say on anti-gay bills. And so but you are right, Christi, these are playing out all over the world there. And countries and nations where similar shifts in policy there has been been a swing towards that globally. And so I think there is what we have to remember is that we're shoulder to shoulder with lots of organizations. So while we may be thinking as an organization as case, how do we think about the differences in these states? And believe me, there are many case members who feel who actually believe in these in these policies and procedures. So I think we also have to have to see ourselves as convener. We have to see ourselves actually as conveners of conversation and discourse and having hard conversations. I realize that is coming at risk in certain parts of the world right now. And we are seeing on the talent front individuals and families who cannot live or be moved to certain states because of their family, family dynamics, family structure, family realities, personal realities. And so it's having lasting impact. But I'll go back to the shoulder, the shoulder, which is that there are amazing organizations across the nonprofit arena working on policy issues, legislative, legislative, judicial to try to move. We're seeing some of the problematic policies be be struck down in the courts. But we also have to remember that in all of our organizations, I know many of you do, you've got the full spread within your own community. And I hear leaders talking about this all the time who are are struggling with the discourse, what I call the the rancorous geopolitical discourse in our in our country. So I hope we're conveners of conversation and forward forward motion. And I just add someone quotes to one who quotes me the other day on this very subject. Christine, I think with everything deficit, this notion that Martin Luther King reminded us that the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice. And I think we have to believe that that quote is that we are moving in the right direction, albeit that there are some steps backwards, but that we'll get that we will really get there and we have to continue to work to get to that outcome. And rely on your you know, many of you have have personal community and you're right, that will you'll have to bond more strongly to that in the near term for for us to be able to move forward in your in your roles day to day. And this is sort of a related question but somebody specifically asked about anti-trans anti to LGBTQ plus backlash happening across North America and globally. If you want to offer anything specific with that topic. I think there's some Thank you Christi I think there and thanks for the question. I think there are parallels to what Sue and I were just speaking about in the sense that I had the joy to be chair of the board of Board of directors of the Human Rights Campaign, which is the largest LGBTQ plus organization, the United States, but really globally as well. And we are we are fighting in unprecedented ways in lots of states, but it is precisely for that. So when you think about the the the corporate equality index, health care equality index, how where people and how they get positive health care, municipal index of where they choose to live, I think we see more talent, for instance, looking at those indices and understanding where could I move my family, where will I be able to receive the care that I need? And and again, that all of I just mentioned the Human Rights Campaign. But it is a huge coalition of organizations working on on policies and and legislative and judicial action to try to and elections. But it really is about the others as much as anything right now. I'd also add to that thoughtful comments. Again, thank you for these questions that great that the Workplaces Opportunities and Inclusion Center, which is really focused on building greater diversity and inclusiveness and on on really supporting institutions and creating and building infrastructure in our schools around this work. But one of the things I'm most proud of in the work in the last 18, 24 months is the development of and inclusion index, which is really acknowledging that the advancement teams will be most successful if they are diverse and reflect the diversity, the rich diversity of the societies that they are supporting and based in. And the inclusion index provides a framing of where your department is now, where your team is to help, and therefore where you have opportunity to grow, and the opportunity to look at other institutions where they may have strengths and areas that you can learn from. So I'm, I'm deeply grateful to everyone involved in creating. Have we invested and had the final results earlier this year and looking forward to more and more institutions utilizing this tool to move us all towards being a more diverse and therefore more successful profession. It's so exciting when I think about when we were developing the Opportunity Inclusion Index for K, So that journey of understanding sort of self-reflection goes back to the beginning of our conversation today. The self-reflection and ability to understand where one is along the continuum and be authentic about that, and then to move, move oneself along where there's work to be done. Great. Thank you. And I did pop the link to the Opportunity and Inclusion center into the chat. If people want to check that out. So switching gears a little bit, someone asked, How do you go about finding mentorship when it is not part of the culture of your current organization? What are some options of things you could do for yourself if it is not already being provided in your current role? Right? So that. Question. Yeah, you know, I'm I this we hear this a lot from from wonderful talented human beings who don't feel mentorship. And I'm a big believer in mentorship. Yes. But championship and you know someone who's going to give you the real feedback and help you move forward. I would say that if you don't see it in in, in in people who are perhaps leaders or your institutions, that is also possible to create more of what I call a personal A-Team. That concept that one could have even a community of peers who can be mentors. I mean, we think about what we learn from each other across ages, across communities, across races and faiths. And I do think there is if you don't see it, yes, I believe that it's good to go and ask. But sometimes asking someone to be a mentor, it's it's not a role that they can fill because of time or other demands. But I am really a big believer in these sort of peer constituencies and then maybe bringing in other what maybe one of them has a mentor in an area that can be brought in as part of your conversation. So lots of ways to create forward motion and feedback loops for yourself. And in addition to tips, there's great thoughts on that. I reflect that in seeking out mentors also identify what most you would look like from that experience. So when I arrived in Australia to live there for the first time working the University of Melbourne, actually I wasn't looking for mentorship in my advancement, What I was looking for mentorship in understanding the culture of Australia and how to be effective in Australia. And I in fact reached out to someone who was an alumnus of the previous university. I worked in Oxford, was in Melbourne, Australia, and asked if he'd be my mentor. He ran a business and we met on a monthly basis for my first couple of years at Melbourne and that was exactly what I needed. So I think I think we can look to our networks and communities and stretch. It felt it felt a little anxiety provoking to ask him what he said. Yes, I couldn't be more thrilled. It was an invaluable experience. I was thinking earlier when you asked me about about development of my own leadership, because as I said, some people can see it as innate. O'Dell Comfortable speaking publicly. That was a developed skill. But what we even saw, people sometimes people say, I'm an introvert. Where does my leadership development come from? And in fact, you know, finding other leaders in your landscape, there may not be a formal mentor to you, but you're watching and observing how they lead and how they proceed with, you know, day to day. And in big moments we can see that. And it often we find the people who we resemble and we can find incredible role models, sometimes negative ones, mostly positive ones, to build our own leadership portfolio. Great. Thank you. Someone else asked, What is the most productive tool you found to avoid political pitfalls when working with CEOs who might not align with your worldview? It's a tough. Question. That's a tough question. It you know, a I'll say listening is a profound skill when I little fundraising and ultimately strategy for Girl Scouts of the USA, we were in every U.S. zip code, but also in 94 countries. And if you think about some of those sub parts of that organization, I was leading at the national and global level, but the sub parts of the organization were, in fact, those in the United States. You might understand this reference, but the council that covered Austin also covered Waco so dramatically, different political views. And and I was often in all these communities, I was already who I was. And so I think the idea with a CEO who may or you suspect may be different is to find common ground, to listen to ask them more about their their backgrounds, their their worldview, how did they develop their world view? What is it they want in the institution? I've often found that somebody I thought who would be so different than I was ended up having, there were commonalities, and from that commonality, we created some shared visions and ways that would work together, learn to get to know each other as humans, and then we're able to do other productive work together. But it was trust building at a very core level. And the only thing I would add is unfortunate. Having an executive coach introduce me to the concept a few years ago of a judge in and the advantages of having a learned mindset rather than a judge of mindset. So I think one of the keys to relationship building is being curious and the minute we judge people and put them in boxes because of the way they see the world, I think it doesn't contribute towards relationship building. So having that learned mindset, I think as often as possible is really valuable. Tremendous concept. Yeah. That's a great point. And I just wanted to share a comment from the chat because I thought it was very clever in response to the mentorship conversation, someone called it a personal board of directors, which I thought was very clever and I will always remember that. So thank you for that tidbit. And another question here, this is specifically for Dad, but I think either of you can weigh in here. I'm just asking if your firm or other search firms are doing anything to with advancement. Second, secondments between universities or if you can offer any insight into that topic. Yeah, I think the conversation is just unfolding. I can see. Consider Sonia Dunphy at Richmond, a leader in it, but I do think there are probably different terms around it. Four years. It's a serious challenge because part of what organizations, they just are so desperate. There's such a talent shortage in the country in every country right now, every country. I want to be really clear about that. There are real talent shortages and advantage in advancement. So that idea of being able to share talent or share roles perhaps move over. It's serious work with boards, it's serious work with leaders. It has to get us of our fearful box. It's possible that we could begin to think about how we create more formal programs and. It's a really good question. I just don't think it's fully enough developed. It's really when two leaders or perhaps two professionals figure out a way to make it work and aren't threatened by the by the shift and the loss of talent for that period of time, but see it longer term as a real investment. Many institutions have had sabbaticals for years. It could be that organizations will think a little bit more creatively about even a month away, a month in another institution. Thank you. And Christy, do we have time for one more short question? I think, yeah, we're budding up against it, but we can do one more. And so this is kind of a big question that somebody asked. What tips can you offer for current leaders who want to empower their own staff and start to build that confidence that you talked about? So staff who maybe hasn't reached that point yet, but they want to see them get there? Yeah, I would truly encourage you to have a more of a structured talent architecture for your Think about the competencies. Again, I case the case competency model that was developed through really several years of work can be adapted for most leaders and managers in our in our professional in our profession. And think about where you are individuals are, whether you're using there's a there's a tool called a nine box or there are ways of thinking about where people are in their professional development and where they want to be, where you need them to be. So it really forces a formal, structured conversation to use competencies, to use some of those assessment tools and get people used to them so they're not afraid of them. I would also say you cannot communicate enough about what you're doing to help somebody so that you are actually asking them to take a risk. You're actually asking them to take on a role and come back to you with a plan and you won't be upset if they don't get the plan right the first time. But I find that pushing people sort of out of their comfort zones creates all sorts of nervous behaviors. And the idea of of really supporting people on those journeys, of taking risks, learning more skills, growing in their competency levels is a very is a quite structured, structured process. So I'm going to take the chat prerogative. And I have one final question for you. If there's a summer solstice, not this is feeling much like Washington, D.C., where it's cold and Graham wet but an important part of leadership is in mulching that we need to recharge. How do you recharge the. I you know when I think about this summer, I think it's a perfect, perfect mix of some time with family, some time with very good friends. And also then also being with be at Case Summit and being at Case Europe. The idea of the combination of having some time to to travel and open up my mind and then to be with family and people we love our A-teams or our private or personal board of directors. It's the whole package for me that helps me step back and reflect and aim forward. Well, on behalf of all of us, Deb, can I thank you for a really, really interesting conversation and set of insights. I'm taking away that sense of constant learning that sense of importance, of being willing to to test things out and be willing to fail. I'm thinking about the constant itself, insecurity, and and I love the inhaling feedback, but there was so much wisdom and acumen in the last we work together so that I thank you hugely from all of us and also for handling that. Kristi, I'd just like to congratulate Kristi and everyone on her team for what's been an amazing two days with many, many speakers, thousands of participants. I quite simply couldn't have done it without you. So huge thanks, Kristi and to all of the team who've made this possible and all of our volunteers who have spoken. On that note, Kristi, I think I'm sending back to you. Yes. Thank you so much, everyone. So that concludes our conference. We will have recordings from today's sessions up within the next hour on the platform. You'll be able to navigate to those by going to the agenda and clicking on the session name. The recordings from yesterday are already up, so feel free to look back at anything you missed and we hope to see you next year. Thank you, everyone.

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