want to again thank you for coming to our Together. We're going to have a very spirited discussion about mental health. Before you all got on, I think all of us have had a week. You know, we're talking about weather. We went from in this area from 13 degrees to now 70 degrees here in Petersburg, Virginia. And just all the things that we deal with on a daily basis from personal and professional. So I think this is timely for us to talk about mental health. Um, my technology is being technology. And so I can't even pull up my document. So I'm going to pivot and be the trainer that I am. My name is Franklin Johnson-Norwood. I serve as the executive director of alumni engagement and advancement services at Virginia State University. I've been a case volunteer in this capacity for one year. I think at my first case conference, I worked the check-in booth, but now I'm on the cabinet and I'm excited to have some of my colleagues from the district three cabinet with us. Um, so I'm going to kick off and just go around and just briefly, um, because I can't get to my document. Uh, Dr. Mel Johnson-Norwood, um, is the serves as the associate provost and vice chancellor for student affairs at Winston-Salem State University. He's going to be our main moderator for this together. Um, we have Dr. Atasha Christian. Uh, she is our expert in the field of counseling. She owns her own private practice and does public and private, um, counseling. Um, and we'll have an opportunity to hear from everyone. Uh, we also have Kelly Travis. Kelly is, um, we thought when we were, uh, putting our panel together, we wanted to bring in different perspectives. Kelly works in records and gifts. Um, and so she will bring that perspective because again, we all lead teams. Um, Lindsay is at, at Georgetown and, uh, she, her, I'll give her a chance to introduce herself and give her a title. And then Chris as well. Um, it has a long history within an advancement. Um, so I'm going to turn it over to Dr. Johnson-Norwood and Dr. Johnson-Norwood, if you would give each of the panelists a second just to introduce themselves, and then we will have a poll question. Um, before we do that, uh, Jacob, could you bring up the poll question really quick? We want to ask you a question about how would you rate your mental health today? Um, from one to five, once the poll comes up, uh, one being it's bad, I'm having a day and five will be good. And so once it pops up, uh, just take a second or two to do that poll question for us. Thank you so much, Franklin. Um, as mentioned, I am, uh, Mel Johnson-Norwood, excited to, uh, moderate this session today. Um, I want to turn it over to Lindsey to introduce herself. Thank you so much. My name is Lindsey Smith. I serve as the director of strategic partnerships at Georgetown Business School and specifically with Business for Impact, which focuses on, um, uh, businesses being the best in the world and for the world. So business for good. Thank you all so much for having me. Thank you, Lindsey. Chris? Good morning or afternoon, depending on your time zone. Um, I'm Chris Phillips. I'm the vice president for alumni engagement and philanthropy at Austin Peay State University. I'm also, uh, executive director of the foundation. I'm very happy to be here. I've been at Austin Peay, my alma mater, for about eight years. Before that, I worked with the University of Tennessee system for 16 years and started my career way back when at Austin Peay, so I've kind of come full circle. Love K. It's been a part of my life for many, ever since I've been in this profession here at 30 years and my laureate case laureate now and also was chair of district three in 2015 through 17. Awesome. Uh, Kelly, I know we got a bit of your information. Anything you want to add? Sure. So, um, as you mentioned, I'm a senior director of records and gifts at the University of Central Florida in Orlando. I worked at UCF for a little over 15 years and various roles in advancement. Um, it is my alma mater as well. Um, and I like Franklin and new to the case to shift the board where some of the newbies together, I started in August. So happy to be here and kind of share the operational mindset of this space. And thanks for including me. Thank you so much. As we, uh, turn to Dr. Christian, I want to ask if we can bring the results of the poll up and that'll, um, get us started with, uh, Dr. Christian. All right. So we see the poll there. Um, looks like a vast majority of the people are saying that they're at a four, which is, is very reasonable. Um, we're kind of lucky if we get to a five and that very good space. Um, so I want to begin, uh, with, uh, turning it over to Dr. Christian who can also introduce herself and kind of give any early thoughts on what you see in the poll. Dr. Christian. Thank you so much, Dr. Johnson. No, I was actually going to ask that too, to look at the, at the poll. Um, because the counselor in me always has to be able to read the room. So hello everyone. I am a Tasha. I am a licensed professional counselor, um, in eight States, primarily in the Commonwealth of Virginia. I'm also a counselor educator. Um, I am adjunct faculty at a university of Southern California and their counseling program. Um, and a big part of what I do, I have a private practice, but I also do a considerate, a considerable amount of consulting work for both the private and public sector, um, to talk about how we're able to bring in mental health needs and treatment strategies into corporate spaces and into higher education. Um, and quite frankly, the way in which I got there was because I started getting a whole bunch of EAP referrals. Um, but these were EAP referrals that quite frankly had gone too long. Um, and so we were having to have difficult conversations and counseling spaces and set up preventative counts conversations. And so the goal is that we can start to do some preventative work, um, so that we don't have to have a whole lot of people accessing a lot of EAP at one time, um, and having to make decisions. So as counselors, we don't like people to always make decisions. We want them to feel like they can function in the gray, but sometimes when it's a little too out of, out of, uh, out of that purview, you've got to make black or white choices. So here's what I'm happy to see. I'm happy to see that we're kind of hovering around that three, four sort of space, um, which is a good thing, right? Now you all work in higher ed, it's a nice Thursday in January. If we were to do this poll, say the end of April, um, you might have different data. Um, or if we were to do this poll, say the third Tuesday in August, um, we might have some different numbers, right? Cause the environment also matters. What's happening also matters. And so one of the things that I want to talk to you all about just to start, and then we'll go into the questions is what do we currently know about trends in mental health and higher ed, both from faculty staff lens and from student lens? And then what can we do to really improve kind of our mental health report card as we like to call it? So a couple of things that we know, and this is true for both staff and students, um, post COVID, our reports of mental health, uh, needs have significantly increased. That does not mean that they were not there pre COVID. It just means that people are now willing to talk about, right? So my colleagues and I, for the first time have waiting lists. We we've never had that. We don't know how to function with the waiting list. And I was like, what do I, how do I create it? What do I do? How do I tell people something? Because COVID hit and a lot of people said, I would like to talk to someone. Um, and then we started returning back and people were struggling in education spaces as students. And people were also struggling as faculty and staff because we've not had interaction with each other in a long time. So we know that the rates are increasing. You know, we, we look at the, the kind of general numbers, which tell us typically one in five, um, individuals, adults, 18 and older will have some sort of mental health diagnosis in their lifespan. I would argue against that report and say, it's probably about one in three. Um, because remember that's based upon self-reporting. Some cultures struggle with self-reporting. Um, some individuals would also prefer to see a psychiatrist for a pill before they necessarily get counseling. That's their choice. Um, so probably about one in three is a more accurate, um, stat, but who am I can't control the stats. So we know that we know that for individuals working in higher education, we're seeing higher rates of anxiety. We are seeing some higher rates of depression and many of those things are linked to burnout. Um, and they're really linked to burnout that is going untreated. People often ask me, can I come see a counselor for burnout? Absolutely. I want you to do that. Um, and they say, well, what are you going to diagnose me with? I don't know. I don't know yet. Right. And there is no diagnosis for burnout, but I promise in this big old book that I have called the DSM-5, I can find something to make work for you. Um, but yes. So here's what often happens. We talk about experiencing burnout and then we don't get help for that. We just kind of go to our supervisor and say, can you maybe, you know, shift some things around on my plate? That doesn't necessarily treat what it is that we have going on. Burnout absolutely does impact your emotional and mental health. So we know that. So that's what we know. But here's what we also know. For the first time in this country, we are really open to all sorts of emotional health practices. And I am so excited about that. You used to kind of have to pick a side. You were going to take the, this is what the textbook says. This is my approach. Forget the holistic stuff. I got to come into an office, lay on a sofa. I don't know why that's not comfortable. I got to do all of that. I'm going to see you for 12 weeks. You're going to tell me what I have. You're going to tell me what I need to do. Go. That does not work, right? Um, it just doesn't. Now we recognize that counseling looks different. The face of the counselor looks different. I would say I do really good work in the office, but I also do really, really good work while we're trying to work through your social anxiety and publics, right? Because the counselor can be a counselor no matter where they are. Because quite frankly, sometimes too, people get so stressed having to come into the office. And by the time you get in, we got to spend 20 minutes debriefing your stress. Um, so the face of what we're doing is changing. So here are a couple of things that, and I'll put them in the chat too, that I think can be really successful just overall. Um, and then we'll start to answer, to go over some questions. First things first, I'm always going to say this, please get counseling. Everybody needs counseling at some point in time in their lives. Counselors need counseling. Fun fact, never see a counselor who will not get their own counseling because what exactly do you believe in? Right? Everybody needs to see a counselor. We struggle with that sometimes because when we work in systems and we think about services, we think I don't need services. Everyone doesn't need services, but everybody can benefit from counseling. Okay. So I want you to think about in moments in your life, how beneficial would it have been to talk to someone who's totally objective, who wants nothing more than the best for you and to produce the healthiest you. So that's the first thing. People will often ask, will someone know my diagnosis? If you're paying by insurance, could your insurance company know? Yes. But will your colleagues know? No, you could even use EAP and your colleagues don't know what your diagnosis is, right? I pay a good amount of money once a month to be protected and I don't like to get sued. Um, and so we don't disclose that information, but that is a stigma that I often work to demystify. Second thing that I really want you to do is create community. Um, we were not built to live in isolation. And so create community based upon what your needs are. For example, you may have a community that is connected through work and y'all get together and you kind of talk about work stuff. You talk about trends, you know, you go to your conferences, like I got conference friends. We see each other at our conferences. We talk about what's coming out. We talk about the new textbook. It sounds absolutely nerdy to a person walking through the hotel lobby, right? But it's our time. It's, it's, it's my happy space. But then I have community who likes to do things I like to do, like go out for tea. Right. And we don't talk about what's happening in work because all of us exist in different spaces. So create community based upon your specific needs. The next tip, I really believe in is holistic healing. And I say holistic in the sense that you're treating the entire person. I have learned this in the past, probably two, two and a half years of my life. Um, cause I didn't model this for a long time. I can't just tend to my mental health. I have to tend to my physical health as well. These two things are equally important. We really do use that airplane analogy. You got to put your own mask on first. And so it doesn't matter how much good work I do. If physically I can't withstand walking through the park with the client. And if you work with kids, they want to roll on the floor. They want to paint something. They want a Frisbee. You got to do a lot when you're working with kids. Right. And the last thing that you want to do is be in a space where a child is looking at you concerned. So we do have to treat our physical health as well. I'm preaching to the choir and I know you're going to chuckle when I say this, but we do have to get enough sleep and we have to eat as healthy as we can. And I'm laughing cause I know y'all are like, where exactly do you want me to get sleep at? I get it. I get it. Right. Um, I'm not going to say increase your hours of sleep, but make sure that your sleep is restful. So there's a difference. You can get 10 hours of sleep, but it not be restful sleep. That's a waste of a good sleep. Okay. But you can get five. And if you've got five quality hours of sleep, then you're okay. You want to get restful sleep, meaning create the environment in your home that allows you to go to sleep. Um, the last one mindfulness, you can download an app on your phone. You can print out activities. Mindfulness is really a space of being present and being here. And now I have a thing that goes off on my phone about five times a day. That reminds me to take a minute to breathe and reminds me to take a minute to have gratitude and be mindful to be present of the space that I'm in. And I get, when you're in the workspace, you're like, how do I have a moment to do that? Go into the bathroom, go into the bathroom and do that. Walk outside, listen to the earth, right? I started to do that. I got a dog two years ago. Nothing humbles you more like having to go outside at 4 a.m. with the dog and just listen to the sounds of the earth. Now at 4 a.m. I'm a little frustrated because I wanted us to go outside and not, but it was raining and that was a fight, but at 4 a.m. Okay. I'm angry in the moment, but if I sit and I listen to the sounds of the earth, it will remind me of the beauty it is in existing on this earth. And I know that sounds so counseling and it is, right? But I encourage you to do that every single day. Take a moment to just listen to nature, listen to the earth. Okay. So those are my tips for you. I'm going to give to you now. We're going to answer any questions you may. Thank you so much, Dr. Christian. That was really good, good information. I know we're all trying to figure out now, where do we incorporate this, this sleep and, and this, this good eating that you're talking about, you know, got to eat whatever's on campus sometimes or whatever's on the road, but no, that's, that's good information. Um, what I want to do is I have a question. I'm going to pose it to the rest of the panel to kind of talk about your experience and then let Dr. Christian respond. So we know right now, and we have five different generations that are in the workforce, you know, all the way back to the silent generation. We're even sitting in a political landscape where, you know, we have some late 70, early 80 year old people, um, who are running or potentially running the country, running the Congress, but also on our, you know, on our campuses, we're seeing those people, but also we're seeing, you know, Gen Zers who are now in the workforce and we're having to manage all five of those, um, generations. So Kelly, Chris, Lindsay, will you talk a little bit, um, about what you're seeing in that space, how you are, um, you know, working with, uh, those, those, um, five different generations, especially around the mental health piece, because I think, um, each of those generations would potentially, um, prioritize their mental health in different ways. Being probably the seasoned of the group, um, I'll talk a little bit about generational type things. Um, you know, when I started in advancement, I don't want to be in, um, next September, uh, this, you know, he didn't talk about it. It was not okay not to be okay. You know, it really wasn't. And, and now we're, now we're at, you know, a lot of, and so many ways people handle it or don't handle it, uh, until you, it took me some time as a leader and read more and to learn more about what the different generations need. And when you're in the role that I'm in, sometimes people don't think I've talked to or maybe I don't have relationships, but I have purposely, every one of my staff, I have like 25, which I'm in schools, that's not possible, but I have a relationship with every one of them. We have coffee together, we talk about how are you, thing I ask every day, how are you? And because you never know, this could be the best or worst day of your life, and you just have to be able to see the cues, whether it's verbal or nonverbal. And I have just seen, no matter what the generation, everybody, when you have a relationship with them, a little more willing to talk. So that's what we do for a living. We were relationship builders within our own staff, in our own community. And if you don't have those relationships, you need to make them. And you've got to, and to what we've already heard, I mean, you've got to be able to get access to deal. And that's what it's there for. And as someone who's seen it not be okay to be okay to where it is now, I like the space that we're in, things like the internet, and things that we didn't have when I first started, are now those, I think, that really have caused people to feel like they can't connect, they can never not be working, and things like that. You have to take it for you. And that's what I tell my team every day. There are three things, faith, it's family, and then it's job. That's what it is. Thank you so much. Kelly or Lindsey, are you experiencing a multi-generational workforce in your area? And how is that looking from the mental health landscape? Sure, I'm happy to jump in here next. I definitely, so I have a team of nine, and they span from someone who this is her first job out of college, all the way to, I have a couple of individuals in their 60s. I definitely do see that generational difference. But I think one thing that we've done as a team and as a unit overall, and I think as a community post COVID, it's just be more open and conversational about all things like that, right? So, although I do see some of the differences in how things are related, or maybe how open people are to talking about certain things, I think that whenever we make it a part of our culture as a Reference and Gifts team, that we're open to it, it's like bring everything to the table, it's made a big difference. And one thing I've done is like, and it seems silly in some ways, is I read an article on LinkedIn about how in the hospital, they were bringing those big coloring murals in. And I was like, I just see what everybody thinks about it. And everybody loved the idea. I was actually kind of surprised. I thought they'd be like, Kelly, what are you doing? But we have one in our back wall, and when you need a break for whatever you're working on for whatever reason, you go back there and you can color. And it's funny because now folks from other departments come in and color on our sheet. And so things like that, I think just being open to that, and every person in the team, I've seen them go back and do it. So that kind of spanned the generational, if you had told me 15 years ago, I'd be coloring at work, probably would have told you, no, I'm not. You know, like, what am I doing there? But now it's very much like, okay, cool. We can put everything on the table, everything's out there. So I think just thinking outside the box has really helped bring all the different generations. And to what Chris said, I think everybody is unique. Their needs are unique. Their way to communicate is unique. And so you really have to look at the individual and what do they need from me as a leader, because it's not going to be the same because their life experience is different and where they are in their life is different. So I think that's very important to kind of make sure you're looking at every person as who they are as an individual, and you as a leader in that team are communicating. You're meeting them where they are, right? You can't force everyone into what I need them to be. I got to meet them where they are. I think that makes a big difference too. Yeah, I'll briefly piggyback on that and say that to Kelly's point of meeting someone where they are is different generations may have different strengths as well. I think we oftentimes focus on, there's the quips of like millennials do this, Gen Z does this, the boomer generation does that. But instead of looking at it as a negative, thinking about the assets that they could bring to the table and trying to tap into those things and celebrate those differences and that has been really successful on my end of highlighting it instead of joking around and saying, you don't remember what it was like without internet, but really explaining, that is a strength and these are, what kind of ways can you bring and what kind of things can you bring to the team that other generations can't and what are some historical knowledges or differences that other generations can bring to the table that different generations can learn from each other and support each other. I think that's been key to success whenever I've managed a team or worked with an intergenerational team. That's great, thank you so much. Dr. Christian, what are your thoughts on this multigenerational intergenerational workforce and how we can support them through the mental health journey? I have to start by saying, I'm really excited about the work that y'all are doing at your universities and I love the collage and the wall. You're at UCF, so you're down with Dr. Kent Butler. So I know that he enjoys all of those things. Who is a wonderful colleague of mine and past president of the American Counseling Association. So we do talk about how to bring these spaces. Fun fact, never think that your teams won't enjoy activities that you think are kid-like. I just had an entire team of CEOs and we cut out shapes and put them on construction paper after they drew positive affirmation. And the hardest part for them was struggling with, it's okay if you call it outside of the line, literally. But it makes sense for their profession. And I'm just sitting back going, there's a lot of money in this room, right? But there's a lot of struggle in here too. So do those sort of activities. We are in a space where just financially, you have people who maybe would have retired before who are entering the workspace again or just are not in a space to leave. And sometimes you've gotta be able to manage each intersection of your team. So you might have the person who is, I'll use my age, who's 42, who is like, I wanna get another house. Is someone going to waive my student loan debt? What exactly is going on? Fix it today, right? And then you've got this person who maybe has two more years of paying out a mortgage and they're trying to be smooth sailing. Then you got a person who is 25 and right out of school and is saying, well, all we have to do is send the following eBites through the calendar and I use Canva to create the flyer, right? All that's happening at the same time. Those are all intersections that are all existing. My suggestion to you, especially when you manage teams is to be able to see the person based upon where they are developmentally. And the other part that we really wanna look to do is remove general terms, right? So I think it was Lindsay who said, people are like, well, the millennials do this. I had to just correct a staff member the other day and say, you know, we're millennials too. Like we're on the aging outside of it, I don't know who you're talking about because who are you referring to? Because you're literally talking about you. And I had to tell her, I said, so that's number one, why we don't make those kinds of comments. And number two, you're talking about generation Z and what I'm gonna tell you is when you make that comment to generation Z, they're going to challenge you in a way that you're not prepared for. Get it together because you're getting on my nerves. So I know you're gonna get on theirs, right? That's the big thing is to change the narrative. And so if you can create teams that are intentional about using different generations, you got a really good shot of winning. You know, you see those things on social media that talk about in the workspace, you'll be 27 and you're going to your coworkers 50th birthday party. You really are, you know, like she's very nice. Find a way that each person of that generation on your team is able to shine. I came in as an operations director at I think 36 and our office manager was about 60 at that time. And yes, there's a lot that I knew, but there's a lot that she taught me, which was even just about just everyday office stuff. And I'm sitting here getting frustrated because I can't send this out or send that out. And she taught me really the importance of making sure at minimum you're at work on time. Because some generations feel like you kind of get to stroll in when you want to. No, that didn't work, right? So she was able to teach me quite a bit. I was able to show her some things, but we had to really have a conversation, right? That wasn't about you're young enough to be my daughter, I'm not your daughter. And you're going to be my mom, I'm not your mom, right? We had to have those kinds of conversations. If you're leading the team, find a strength of each person and celebrate the gift that they bring to the team. That's good, celebrating the gift and finding the strength. Looking in the chat, one of the things that Tara wrote is that gratitude often counters the sense of scarcity. And I think that once, as Dr. Pershing said, once we find that strength in each of the people and become grateful for that, that'll really help. We're going to bring up another poll. And that poll question says, in the past six months, what has negatively impacted your mental health in the workplace? And so we know what I... I didn't drop it to Jacob. So if people just want to type their response in the chat that I'm on my computer froze. No, it's okay. Jacob and I already worked it out. Okay, thank you. Yeah. See workspace, pivot, look at that. And so we know that when we think about the past six months, okay, we're in January. Yes, it's still January, right? But the past six months, we just finished the holidays. And so we had Christmas, we had Thanksgiving, we had Hanukkah, we had all of the December and November and Kwanzaa, all of those holidays. And, but thinking over those past six months, we're asking in the chat, what has really impacted your work, your mental health in the workspace? I think for some of us, even returning to work from that break could have impacted some of our mental health. So Dr. Christian, as people are beginning to answer that question, I wanna ask you for both leaders and those who, well, we're all leaders. So for the leaders on the call, you mentioned EAP, but what are some of the resources? I hear EAP, I hear the creative activities that Kelly's doing with her staff. What are some of those resources that we can bring to bear for our staff, especially when we think about how important it is for us to do the work. We have to engage with our alums, we have to friend raise, we have to fundraise, we have to do all of these reports that are due, we have to meet our annual goals. But when we understand that it's people doing that work and that we need to support those people, what are some tips and resources that you might have? So one of the first things I would recommend is partnership, right? And I know that's difficult sometimes at the higher ed level, cause you gotta go through so many things sometimes to partner, right? But in mine, I finished a consultation maybe about a month ago with a small school and very small, like a trade vocational program. And they were talking about, we wanna have all of these things come in, we wanna have all this wellness stuff, but I can't get the staff to do it, I can't get them to schedule. And I said, well, because you want them to do it outside of what they do for you 40 to 50 hours a week. And I said, so why not partner with a university that has a master's of counseling program or doc programs or social work programs who have interns, right? They can create the programs for you. You don't have to have your staff that's working nine to five to create it cause they're creating it for themselves. It's really hard to appreciate the pizza party when you're the one who had to order it and pick it up, right? It's difficult to appreciate that. Let's be honest, I don't care what role you're in, it's hard to do that. And then you're like, and I ordered 50 boxes and only 19 people are here, that's not who RSVP. Now you're angry when you see them all, right? All of that, I've been there, done it. So partner, create partnerships, bring people in. There are so many people that I know like me who are willing to come in. And I will tell you, you'll meet a lot of professionals who to start will come in pro bono. Here's why I say that, right? It might be your department and they're coming there pro bono, but they're gonna wanna do some really, really good work. So when y'all have a leadership meeting, you recommend them and it leaves that department's budget and it enters a university's budget, right? If it's my business, I'm gonna meet with, let's say student activities. I'm gonna meet with student activities, I'm going to have a couple of town hall meetings for student activities, because I want everyone to be really happy with the work that I did, because that way when the university is doing RFPs, I'm gonna turn my information in and at minimum somebody knows my name, right? Just in some capacity. Or if there's no RFPs, I'm gonna send something to the university saying, these are the things I've done for your university, for your program, I think the great things about you, but here's also how I could benefit. That's a different budget and a different conversation. Bring in outside partners, outside partners can assist with that and it gives you the opportunity to do the things that only you can do, right? Also too, if we're talking from a mental health space, reach out to providers in your area. Can you come in and do a workshop for me? I might not have it in the budget to pay you, but here's why I'm gonna come as the counselor. You might not have it in the budget to pay me to do a workshop, but the non-people that are in the workshop are gonna see me for outpatient. I'm good. It's a win for everybody. Bring in people and here's the great thing too, because everyone has a license to practice, you know they've been vetted in some capacity, right? There's something, there's a standard that they've already met, but bring people in and you can have the people come in and be the heavy for you. I always ask this of clients, where do you need me to be the heavy with your team? Because I can say what you can't say, because if they don't like me, I'm not coming back on Tuesday anyway, right? You gotta see them every day. I don't. So if you gotta talk with the team who's burnt out, who was like, I'm just burnt out, et cetera, I get that. But we also have to talk about deliverables and deadlines that are out of everybody's hands. I can say that, that you might not, you can say it, but it causes conflict and we don't need that. Does that make sense to everyone? Yeah, that's really good. And I think Dr. Christian, you kind of answered the question that some of us might have of thinking about, you know, I just can't afford it. Like my budget can't take another hit, but knowing that we can potentially partner with, you know, counselor education programs on our campus or either finding clinicians in the community who are willing. And even if they don't understand, you just gave us some tips on how we can sell it and help them better understand how this would work for them. So to the advancement leaders on campus, I wanna, so Courtney wrote about lots of turnover on staff, both on our team and others. And so it's a constant need to adapt to that. Roles not being occupied, confusion about who's doing it. Talk a little bit, if you will, about how are you managing that on your team? Because I think we're seeing, you know, that increased turnover. We know during the pandemic, there was the great resignation. And then after that, for some, there was the great reconsideration once bills started rolling in. But how are you managing that on your campuses? I can jump in here first, if y'all would like. So this is definitely something we've been up against. And also in true higher ed fashion, once that position becomes vacant, it's like a red tape hurdle chaos to bring a willing person into the role once you've found them even, right? So we've definitely been up against that. I think one thing I've done with the team and kind of from a strategic level too, is look at all the things that we are accountable for on a daily basis. What work has to be done and what work does not have to be done. And then I was able to take that to my leader and say, we don't have the capacity or the resources to accomplish these three things this month because we have an open role, right? And so that was able to help the team feel like, okay, one, they have somebody advocating for their ability of what they can do every day, not putting unnecessary pressure on them, making sure that when it was a priority, I communicated that clearly. If it wasn't a priority, I also communicated that clearly. I found that to be almost sometimes more helpful to be like, this isn't a priority. You can get to it in three days and I'm okay with that. I honestly think they'd like hearing that more than give this to me tomorrow because they need to know that. I need to know that too for myself when I'm getting work. I think really giving people the space and not feel like, well, I'm the person that stayed and I'm being punished for it because my workload expanded, not just moving that work around, really trying to evaluate what needed to move and what could just sit until the role came back on or what did we need to reevaluate. We use Smartsheet to manage our project load and I really love it for the team and it gives me that high-level view. When we need to come in and say, this, this, this, and this moves to next fiscal year. Like, okay, it's off the list, totally. It's that visual of what's happening, what's due, what do we need to do? And that kind of helps alleviate everybody's stress. They know exactly what's coming, what they need to do, what needs to be moved. So I think that has really helped because you can't do anything about people leaving and starting. There's always gonna be a gap. So it's gonna take a while for the new person to come on board and come to full capacity. So I think the best thing you can do is manage workload and expectations and communicate that as well. That's really good, Kelly. It reminds me of a colleague that I have around late November, early December, he always starts to say when some things come up, I think that's a January conversation. And so realizing that everything might not be both urgent and important and how can we push some of this stuff? What's essential? What's the core mission of the work that we do? And how can we kind of hone in on those things? What would you like to add? I'll just add that the kind of cross collaboration with your employees of prioritization. So when I'm meeting with direct reports, I would always have a conversation with them where I say, what does your prioritization look like, list look like for you right now? And they're able to share with me and then we're able to align on, oh, I thought because you said it in this tone or the Dean's name was attached to it that that was a high priority and I can reframe and say, oh no, actually that was just something he casually mentioned during a phone call that actually can go lower on your priority list. Oftentimes when you hear from supervisors and they say, I need this by next week and you think about the five other things, it's like, well, where does this fall on the priority line? So having that open dialogue with colleagues is hugely helpful in terms of prioritization lists and making them feel empowered in their decisions and that they know how to manage their workflow and that I'm there as an asset rather than someone who's managing over and micromanaging their task. Yeah, and Lindsay, I like what you said there because I did that with my boss too when she gives me new stuff. I'm like, okay, here's all the stuff you already gave me last week. Which one of these is coming off the list? And I kind of like make her make that decision for me. Like you told me these all are priority but I can't do all of them. So which one comes off the list? And then I'm like, okay, I know I can achieve this now. This is achievable, so. So the only thing I'm gonna add is in my role, everyone is expected to be the expert in their area and it's all about collaboration. Well, I do not go to anyone and say, sometimes it needs this and we get it done. You hear me? It's always a conversation. And if you don't have that open communication, you are gonna lose because they can't do everything. I tell you from being, I had just started to see right after COVID. And guess what happened when we got back to campus? Everybody wanted to do a year of alumni and raising and everything. I was about six months. And I just had to put my hand up and said, no, we're not doing this. We sat down with people and just explained, we missed that for this to happen. Guess what? It's gonna happen again. And you just have to put some expectations because we all learn when the world changed, we had to change. I think if you don't have that mindset, 24 hours a day, you're not ever gonna be successful because it's not the way it used to be, even three years ago. So that's what I would add to that. And just be purposeful. And it's just about just being kind to people. It's about being there. And I don't know if I'm gonna say this, for my mental health, sitting in this place all by myself, I surround myself with things that make me happy. And when things well, or I don't know what's going on, one of my best colleagues I ever met sent me this picture. It's a card that they had made, just wrote a note to me one day, said, have a great day. And it's a picture of a cross that they light up on their leg. That sits right here every day beside my wedding picture. I have all kinds of examples of that, but just little happies for yourself. Nobody has to know why they're there, but it's just a little thing for yourself, thanking people. And I'll give you an example, very purposeful. We try to have a team outing, once a quarter or whatever. And next week we're getting together and our local florist that we use for all of our events is donating. And each of us have been assigned to be in groups of three or four. And we're gonna learn how to design a floral arrangement that the local charity here that gives us. So just doing things like that, I mean, a little pick me up has really helped our team. And the thing that I did is it didn't come from me, back to partnerships. It came from the colleagues or those on my staff who put all this together. So it's all about just working together and it's all about just treating people the way we treat it. Chris, I really like what you said. And Jacob, will you bring up the results from the last poll? But I think that know that you mentioned, really it takes courage. And as we think about our staff members who might be experiencing anxiety, or even us as leaders who may be experiencing some type of anxiety, we have to find that courage to say no. Or even like Kelly said, even if it's not just a no, it's like, okay, I'll do that. But I want you to be clear on here are the other nine things that you mentioned to me, prioritize that for me. And I think that when leaders can find the courage to do that, it also helps us better lead and understand what is it that we're putting on our staff's plate. One of the things that I'm very conscious of is if an employee does not report directly to me and I have an ask of that employee, I never go directly to that person because I want to be conscious of what that person's supervisor is already asking them to do. So it might have to run through three or four different people, but I make sure that we run it down so that it can be prioritized. But I think it was one of the things that Lindsay may have mentioned. We as leaders have to be conscious of the weight of our voice because sometimes what we're saying might just be an idea or a suggestion. And we don't expect you to stop doing it right now and get it done. But you have those people in the workforce where, oh, the vice president, the vice chancellor, the chancellor said it. And so now we have to get it done. I remember former president Obama used to talk about how he would casually mention a food that he enjoys. And then the White House staff will now go and fill the refrigerator with that type of food. I wish there was someone who lived with me that would do that type of thing. But he mentioned, you know, that's not what I want. It was just casual. But sometimes we have to, as leaders, really understand the weight of our voice and really what that means. And so as we begin to kind of turn the corner towards a close, I want to give the opportunity for maybe individuals who are in the audience to post any questions that you might have for the panel in the chat. And we'll make sure that we get those asked. But Dr. Christian, you heard a lot from the group just now. Anything you'd like to add to that? I'm gonna continue to say it. I'm just always excited when we have what I really call paradigm shifts in the work that we do, right? COVID really did, I think it took us to our knees in a lot of ways in the sense that and you didn't know what was going on. It just, it really did rock us to our core. And so it really required us to do things different and to think different. And so I'm excited that you all are doing that. And you said something just now, Dr. Johnson-Norwood, when you said the weight of our voice. And I encourage you whenever you're bringing on new team members as well to kind of set the rules or the team norms for your particular team. And I use team a lot or your department, whatever you use. For example, I'll tell people, I may send you an email at 11 p.m. I don't expect you to respond to me at 11 p.m. It's just when it was on my mind. I might be traveling the next day and can't get it to you in time. But you do have to set that as just an understanding because if not, you've got someone at home who is now waking up, putting contacts in to turn on their computer and respond to you. And now their family doesn't like us in their family's mind, you've required that. And so, as you're bringing on new members and then just kind of periodically throughout the year, hey y'all, what's kind of our department's just rules? We call them group rules, like our group norms. And hear from your team too so they can add some things in as well. One thing I'll add onto that is I had a past supervisor of mine, someone on the team who didn't have children. I was quick to volunteer and say, oh, I'll take the trip to California. I know you all have children. And she said something that was so profound to me. And I think that I encourage others to do this as well. She said to me, Lindsay, I don't care if ice skating is your hobby. Ice skating is just as important and your free time and your mental health is just as important. And so I encourage you all to think about your colleagues and their whole selves that they bring to work. It was really profound to me in boundary setting for myself going forward. And I was much more cognizant of, oh, well, school pickups are super important but this person has doggy daycare pickup. That dog is like their child to them. And we're not comparing children to dogs by any means but what we're doing is respecting their whole self that they bring to the work and they're important. So just something to think about as colleagues brainstorm any other ideas they may have for us. You make a great point, Lindsay. Two things, because I think about the fee I have to pay for a doggy daycare is equal to a childcare. And there's very few people. A lot of people will go pick up a baby. A lot of people are not picking up an Italian master because he can't fit in their vehicle. But we assume that based upon the intersections of someone's life, we assume what they will and won't do. I've done that as a leader. We've had outings and I've said, oh, let's make it a family outing. And so literally my colleague was like, I do not want to bring my kids to this. Please stop saying that. And I didn't, in my mind, you wanted to bring your kids. It would be easier. And she's like, no, can it just be for us? I thought I was doing something like, oh, bring your kids. And every parent was like, I don't want to bring my children to this. If you could actually take that off of the list, that would be helpful. It was a faux pas for me. My intention was good. My impact, however, sent the wrong message. I like that, Dr. Christian. And we probably don't want an Italian master coming to any of our work outings. Taylor Brown posted a really good- He can walk throughout the campus. That's going to be really good for student conduct. Taylor's asking, any suggestions on literature that can be used to inform myself and coworkers about setting up healthy boundaries in the workplace? Absolutely. And I'll tell you just for free, you can go to the American Counseling Association and there's some really good strategies there on how to navigate coworkers and healthy boundaries in that space. And I'm specifically picking that one because many of our monthly magazines are written not for practitioners. It's written for the community. And so that's one that I'm going to always direct you to the American Counseling Association because all of those journals, those magazines are for public consumption because you need boundaries in the workspace. You need a lot of them. And I'll type the website in the chat as well. And you need boundaries because, you know, sometimes everyone at work doesn't have to know all of your business. And then you get upset when they use it against you, but you open the door for it. So we say this in the counseling space. I always say to my students, never tell a client or student anything that you don't want to see on the news. If you're comfortable with it being on the news, say it. If you're not, don't tell it. That's really good, Dr. Christian. I think especially as we are continuing to return from remote and telework into a more in-office space or even continuing to remote and telework, sometimes people may have difficulty understanding when to, you know, when to turn it off because now work is at home. And, you know, it's when I get up, it's right, it's after dinner, I'm still working. And so I think that's gonna be really important for us to understand when does it stop? And especially advancement professionals who don't necessarily have that nine to five, you may be taking, you know, dinners, you know, late in the evening and after hours and traveling on weekends to visit with people. So I think it's gonna be really important to think about that. And so, Dr. Christian, I'll let you wrap us up by answering Janiel's question. And I apologize if I didn't pronounce your name right. How can you shift leadership's perception of over-delegating duties and having high expectations for execution, regardless of the number of people who you have on your team and how do you build that case for support for additional resources? Wow, Janiel, that's a real question and I hope I'm saying it right. So this is what I would say to do whenever you're having your meetings where you can give feedback or even if it's like a team retreat where the space is for kind of team building and working. Here's an activity that I do even for consulting. We take a body, right, a human body, a sketch, and then we have to look at where does each department believe they fit in the body? Right? And so I agree, I think in a lot of college spaces, advancement doesn't necessarily get the push for the resources that others do because you're kind of viewed as like a workhorse. Here's the challenge. If your workhorse goes down, you got a problem on your hands, right? So paint the picture for advancement that regardless of our size, if we continue to over-delegate and not give resources and whatever those resources may look like, a vital part of the organization's health is going to be at jeopardy, right? So we often give like, what's the health of our institution? Are we, you know, we get all these things that says you're healthy, you stage one, all this stuff. What's the health of our institution and where are we the most unhealthy? We're arguably the most unhealthy where we're not paying attention to it. That's usually where we have the health issues. Also too, bring in consultants who are mental health professionals. You have a lot of us now who are actually doing consultant work. Bring us in to actually assess the health of your department or the health of the institution. And here's why I say you bring in the consultant. They can say and see what you can't say and see. Does that help? I hope that helps. And I put a resource in there for you. The Cleveland Clinic has some really good stuff. You'll go down a rabbit hole. Let me just let you know, but start there with the Cleveland Clinic and they'll give you some really good boundaries. And they come from research work too. So thank you so much, Dr. Christian. I think you all heard Dr. Christian a number of times say, bring in consultants, bring in people to help you. I mean, if you don't know anyone to bring in, you can email Dr. Christian and she'll be happy to come in and do it. I wanna thank Chris. I wanna thank Lindsay, Kelly, and certainly Dr. Christian for joining us today. We wanna thank Case and Franklin for inviting us to have this important conversation. And I hope that we all gain something here today that we can take and continue to do the work that we do. Thank you so much. Be well and enjoy the balance of your day.

mental health

workplace

COVID-19 pandemic

boundaries

communication

multi-generational workforce

holistic healing

mindfulness

employee support